Matthew 24:34
"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place."

February 8, 2009

An Atheist and Christian Debate: Conclusion

We finally reach the conclusion of our Atheist / Christian debate. If you've just found this debate and would like to see the earlier parts, please follow the links below (or search in the right-hand margin).
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
Part 7
Part 8
Part 9

From: Daniel
To: Julio
Subject: RE: Research Volunteers Needed
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 01:57:41 -0700

Lol, my dad's a physicist too, and this test is bullshit [walks out]. [editor's note: inside joke between Julio and me]

That's it then, I'm more than happy to leave this conversation where it lies. I've made my points, I feel they've been ignored, and there's no reason for me to keep making the same points over again with no direct answers. You've still not provided any proof for your God; you've only misrepresented my side of the discussion. I'm not going to fall into a trap of having the subject changed and then get sucked in to a discussion on the anatomy of a unicorn. I've already mentioned that it's acceptable to say 'I don't know' when asked about the beginnings of time, yet you contend that I must (and have) taken a position on how the universe began. You are the one making the claim for God and the creation of the universe, I've stated this multiple times, and you've still not answered with evidence. Your evidence for God is the same as my evidence for unicorns, Allah, the Hindu Gods, and the Easter Bunny. When you understand why it is that you dismiss everyone else's Gods, then you'll understand why I dismiss your God as well.

I've said it before, and in closing I may as well say it again. Evolution is an accepted scientific theory, the same as Gravity (which you find so compelling) and Relativity. The only reason you dispel Evolution is because your faith does not allow it, much the same way Heliocentrism was dispelled by those of faith. I explained to you why the other Apes did not evolve into humans, and rather than discuss the scientific aspects of it or the reasoning involved, you went way off course and attacked two words in my explanation. Honestly, is that your reasoning for why evolution is false? The reason why the other Apes have not evolved into humans is completely false because the definition of 'theory' and 'accepted' is disputed via wikipedia definitions? Redefining the term 'theory' from a non-scientific point of view does not disprove the idea, and is not even close to a rebuttal.

And if it makes you feel better, throw everything that I've said away and simply provide evidence for your God. I really don't care if you find Evolution to be true or if you believe the Law of Gravity to be true (after all, it's just a law defined by man right?); these things are not required in any way for the atheist viewpoint to be valid. Just give me the evidence for BibleGod, that's all. That's it, one piece of evidence. You've given me nothing this entire time. You feel that you've disproven my Loch Ness monster, which somehow proves that your Bigfoot exists? [insert link from CNN here...] No, you must still prove your Bigfoot. And there are many Bigfoots claimed by people all over the world, so you must also prove that yours is the REAL Bigfoot. I anticipate the sound of crickets chirping from the next email on this subject.

Please feel free to share this with as many people as you'd like, as I'm more than confident in the points that I've made. Is it okay if I do the same? I hate to see this time and effort go to waste without anyone ever seeing it and learning from it.

Evidence for BibleGod Julio, that's all I ask. You believe in Him, so give me the evidence, ANY evidence, that leads you to understand without a doubt that BibleGod is the one true Creator, over all the other Gods available. You should be able to go directly from your evidence to the statement, 'BibleGod must be the one true God, and Jesus is His son'. I will show your evidence to be highly suspect at a minimum, if not completely invalid. And I know I can do this, because your God is the same as every other God created in the minds of men throughout history, past, present, and future. It is completely imaginary.

Good luck, and may you be blessed by all that Allah has to offer you in this life,
Pastor D


Thank you very much for reading, hopefully you've enjoyed the discussion and have learned a few things about atheism and the atheistic perspective!

February 2, 2009

An Atheist and Christian Debate: Part 9

This is our Christian subject's last post on the matter. My conclusion will be posted later this week, and will mark the conclusion of this discussion. In this email, we see more ridiculous assertions being made and more absurd questions being asked.

Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 18:49:12 -0700
From: Julio
Subject: Re: Research Volunteers Needed
To: Daniel

Hello my sunshine, sorry for the delayed response. I been putting in some crazy hours into this business and haven't had much time to sit down and shoot the breeze with my boy :-)

You seem to shut me down fairly quickly. You mention that I don't address your email when in fact I feel that I do. Questions like 'will your church allow you to.....etc' has been answered in my previous emails but I'm not sure if your doing speed reading and skipping here and there, but I have responded to you with the BEST of my knowledge, I have not simply told you 'end of discussion' or I'm not going to answer that. We're full grown men and I think we can carry a mature conversation without shutting down or getting frustrated. Patience is inside of you, you just gotta work it my nig!

Those websites you mentioned, I know nothing of and didn't bother going to the internet, again I'm answering to the best of MY knowledge. My 'crafty' words to describe theory is nothing crafty its just the simple plain definition just like looking up the word 'Giraffe'. A theory is a theory until proven otherwise. Take gravity, everyday I get out of bed hoping I can defy gravity like that nigga Jordan or fly like a bird but we know its not going to happen. Something (that being gravity) keeps us in order right here on the ground and I love it, I love science, I really do. All I'm trying to say is that there is no proof that we come from molecules, again, from a neutral persons point of view, WE WILL NEVER KNOW and that's just reality. We don't have solid fossils that are billions (not millions) of years old to show solid proof of how man became man, if I remember correctly the oldest fossil is no more than a couple hundred thousand years old. Let's just say I did believe this evolution theory, I still haven't been proven on how the Hominidae species got here in the first place, so I would still be stuck and be forced to believe in something that I have not seen, kind of like God.

Don't fight me and tell me that evolution takes million and millions of years because that statement in its own is already headed towards a guess, like my theory of God.

Just like we live gravity everyday and everyday gravity proves its self and its principals. I dropped a cup the other day and it broke, gravity reminded me of its principals and guess what! Gravity worked, it pulled the cup down (Don't you! My Dad's a Physicist!)[editor's note: inside joke]. I personally have applied certain biblical principles and they worked, would I have applied those principals if I never read the Bible more than likely the answer is 'no', for me at least. But that's me, I just feel in my heart that I would have never exercised these principals if it wasn't for this 'book'. Some people call it luck, chance, or coincidence and I keep quite and respect that (unless its the right time or they ask) but when I'm told that, all I can think of is that I just believe in something greater. I don't fight it, that's too complicated and puts more stress in my life, I just believe in it and move on. What can I say I'm human. If certain things go right for you and your beliefs cause you to give thanks to yourself only, then great, why fight it its too complicated to sit down and figure out who else to give thanks too for every thing that goes right in your life, that's your belief and I respect that.

That's another beauty of all this were all different, imagine everyone had the same personalities, gestures, voice, etc, that would be boring. Why are we all different? I don't know I just live with it and move on, to try to figure that out is too complicated. Why worry about something with insignificant value in our eyes, I have a family waiting for me everyday expecting nothing but the best from me, that in itself is hard work and enough worry. My best is directly connected to principals that I've learned from my little book, that's where I learned them and have succeeded. Your best is connected to something else, maybe principals that you've learned as you grew up or were taught by your family and whether you learned them or were told about them your credit goes to that person or book accordingly. If you read a book about family and because of that book you learned new principals/laws of family and due to that your family is at peace then I'm sure some credit would go to that book where you gained that knowledge, right?

My physical proof and evidence of existence of God/Jesus that you wish to see is as profoned as that one molecule where we came from that's billions and billions of years old that you have showed me and is held in that one museum..........there's is none to date for your argument or mine.

Julio G-Strang