What do you get when you mix together Bill Gates, atheism, Warren Buffet, Evolution, Creationism, 'The Secret' and unicorns? A shitload of frustration...
------------------------
To: Daniel
Subject: Re: Research Volunteers Needed
From: Julio
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008
You are either reading to quickly through my careless email to you and not understanding. I really don't want to go through the same thing twice, for example:
Your Bill & Warren example.
You got what I was trying to communicate just that you always have your guard up, this is a "discussion" not a battle that's why we told each other in the beggining about being open minded about our responses. Thus far you have had a closed mind. Yes! I would want to ask Bill & Warren that one question, again, that's why its important to have success to attract. You can't tell me that success (again, don't just think money) has nothing to do with attraction! Once you attract that person or a group due to your success where they go next is totally up to the person being looked up too. This true whether you believe in evolution, God, Allah,etc. Success attracts, period! I will take that person to different mindset than what you would and vice versa, its kinda like a race foo'. I'm just answering your "God doesn't give a dam" part of your reply.
The other responses you have about consistency I am not going to bother answering and waste my finger tips since you already said you don't want to discuss anything about "unicorns" unless you believe it exists.
"You don't understand evolution"
The same frustration that goes through your mind on how I lack "evolution" knowledge is exactly how I feel about you lacking knowledge about other beliefs. I don't have to go through a Anthropology class to tell you that scientist have a belief too!
Example: When I was a lil' younger I was in a class that had to do with creation/evolution. Let me break this down to you from my eyes. Scientist do have these fossils and evidence (whatever it may be), your right! Let me tell you where my problem is about this so called "evidence". After lining up all these fossils and discoveries that date many centuries, after reading big fat/thick text books(hmm, that sounds familiar),anyways, after hundreds of years of "evidence" these scientist discovered and they keep collecting, this is what it says in a nutshell "scientist discovered X fossils or made X discoveries, this is why scientist BELIEVE that humans/creation/evolution exist or have evolved to......."This is what it says in all the textbooks in the world that you call "evidence". That word "BELIEVE" is in their, this means that its a belief in something that they have not seen they don't have that one piece of evidence that can GUARANTEE 100% on how man came to be man.
If I'm wrong please enlighten me, don't just shut down on me and say "you don't understand so I won't answer that part of this discussion." Here is your chance to win a "soul" for the atheist. Why the heck would I wanna be warned about "creationist" websites when I have the King Atheist at my finger tips, give it to me and give it to me raw!
So the question stands, "does evolution exist"?
What would it take for me to stop believing in God?
For the sake of discussion, here you go! I want to see the precise hard evidence that shows how man became man? I want you to tell me how the Ape came and was born in this world? I want to know how the very first mammal was created? Why haven't the Apes on this Earth turned into Human Beings if this is their so called process? (Its tough I know, but your belief is in scientist and "limited" fossils and evidence that's here now, the magic word will always be there forever "scientist BELIEVE...")
Hit me off Pastor D!
Sincerely,
Captain America
----------------------------------
From: Daniel
To: Julio
Subject: RE: Research Volunteers Needed
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 21:35:27 -0700
The evidence that we evolved from Apes is much greater than the evidence that we were created as-is by God. An understanding of evolution is key to understanding this.
What class did you take on evolution? If it consisted of creationism, than it is not a science class at all. Creationism is not science, because it cannot be proven or disproven. Science can be disproven by anyone, anywhere. Have you actually tried disproving the theory of evolution, or are you just shooting from the hip?
You can no more prove that God created us than I can prove that we were created by martians. However, the difference is that I do not need to prove to you that Unicorns don't exist. You are the one making the claim for God, so it is up to you to prove your claim. You've done nothing but preach and draw odd conclusions for Jesus based on financial success. That is not proof.
Again, you show that you don't understand the theory of evolution with your question about why Apes have not yet turned into human beings. If you want to understand evolution, than I suggest you take a course on Physical Anthropology and Evolution from an accredited college, non-religious school, and discuss why it is all fake with the Professor. It could do wonders for you: There is a person that we both know who went from Christian to agnostic/atheist based almost solely on a Physical Anthropology class. Of course, maybe your religious convictions prevent you from learning anything that goes against it?
It is completely acceptable to answer the question "Where did life begin" with a simple "I don't know". There is no reason to say that you do know, when you don't. I do not know. That doesn't mean I will never know. For example, fifty years ago nobody would have dreamed that the internet was possible. Does that mean that it was impossible? Of course not. It's possible that we'll learn the origin of life, and it's possible that we won't. What we shouldn't be doing is filling in the blanks based on a book full of evil deeds, magic spells and scientific impossibilities, and pretend that we know. We shouldn't be obstructing the very science that can uncover the answers to our existence.
I've said a couple times now that I'm ready to learn about why God exists, and why Jesus is that God. You've done nothing to prove to me that it exists. Do I know where we came from? Of course not. Do you know where we came from? Apparently, yes. You know exactly how the universe began, and exactly what happens when we die, and exactly which God is the correct God. You know that evolution is impossible for man (no matter the evidence), that gay people cannot be born gay (no matter the evidence), and that saying "fuck" makes Jesus sad. And all of that without any type of science whatsoever. It's so simple!
I, on the other hand, do not know these things. I am more than ready to learn them, but the extraordinary claims that you make require extraordinary evidence to support them. You've provided nothing to back up your claims. Why, in a hundred billion years, would I ever believe you when you don't give me proof, logical argument, and rational reasoning? Is it because I should be scared of Hell? Or maybe I should just be really happy to go to Heaven? Is it because I'll be rich or successful? Maybe I'm secretly feeling lost, and I'm longing for that little extra something?
The only people who have a problem with science are those who are scared of it disproving their most cherished beliefs. You have absolutely no scientific basis for believing that the theory of evolution is false. In fact, nobody does...that's why it's still accepted as fact. Anybody, any single person on this earth, is welcome to disprove it and show that the evidence is wrong, and scientists would have to accept it. You are also welcome to prove that the theory of gravity is false, any time you please. Nobody has.
"The other responses you have about consistency I am not going to bother answering and waste my finger tips since you already said you don't want to discuss anything about "unicorns" unless you believe it exists."
I'm more than happy keeping it right there if you'd like. There's nothing more to be said if you can't at least show me why it's more likely that God exists than not. If I wanted a sermon, I'd go to church. But there's nothing at church except a guy describing an invisible unicorn to people...and those people are taught not to question whether the unicorn exists.
Pastor D
--------------------------------------
EDITOR'S NOTE:At this point I'm ready to drive my head through a wall. It's so frustrating, that I actually send Julio a follow-up email and begin to explain the very basics of evolution. Not that it would get me anywhere, but it sure as hell made me feel better.From: Daniel
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 21:59:36 -0700
To: Julio
Subject: RE: Research Volunteers Needed
You want some understanding of evolution, I'll give you a little bit with a response to your "Apes" thing, just to show you that I'm not bullshitting you. Honestly, I'm not teaching you evolution...you want to understand, you gotta get a formal teaching in a college class. And I may be a bit rusty on it, but I got teh core down.
For evolution to occur, there needs to be a couple things:
1) A need to evolve
2) Time, and lots of it
Apes have evolved over time, millions of years. The apes that you see today are different than their ancestors were 10 million years ago. They evolved because they had a need to evolve as a species (ie have better defenses against predators, live in safer places, etc).
The apes that you see today occupy their niche in nature quite well. Thus, they have no real need to evolve. But aren't they going extinct, you ask? Why yes grasshopper, they are! But that is because we are taking their land, and hunting them for meat. But don't they have a reason to evolve then? Why yes, they do! But they don't have millions of years to evolve anymore, because we are here. We shit all over the creatures of the earth. We take their space, eat them, domesticate them, whatever.
The very nature of evolution means that we cannot see it occur today in real-time. That's really a silly suggestion, completely counter to what it's all about. Evolution needs time. The fossil record, however, shows evolution progressing. You can see creatures of all types changing over time, including Apes. If you aren't allowed to believe in that sort of thing though, I don't really know what to tell you. You can see it for yourself in class anytime you want, but not if you flat-out refuse to believe it. Your refusal doesn't change the data though.
Why didn't the other apes become humans too? Because they had no need to. They occupy their niche well. Why aren't all dog species the same (wolves, dingos, domesticated, etc)? Why aren't all cats the same (lions, tigers, cheetahs, etc)? Because they don't need to be, each one works well where it is.
There you go, that's why Apes are not human beings, and that's why it's just a strange question to begin with. It's evolution, I don't know what else to tell you. If you don't want to accept it, then there's nothing I can do. I can't unaccept it, because it's real, accurate, and scientifically supported by evidence. It would be like unaccepting that 2+2=4.
BTW, feel free to share this entire email chain with anyone you'd like, including your pastor. I'd like to hear what he has to say about it. Trick him, tell him that you're seriously having your doubts about Jesus, and see what his response is. "You just gotta have faith, my son". I bet, for sure, that he won't respond 'scientifically'.
pastor d
-----------------------------------
Where does it go from here? Check back next week to find out!
Posts
